Grant Wycliff worked for 4 years as a high school English teacher before pivoting to consulting at McKinsey.
How the heck did he achieve the transition from teacher to consultant? All the juicy details are inside the episode, including:
- Key milestones from his time at McKinsey
- How he determined the path to Partner wasn't for him
- His current adventure in entrepreneurship
- How Grant coaches candidates in case interviews (book a session)
- Managing the mental/emotional aspect of case interviews
- Drawing boundaries to separate work from your life
If you enjoyed hearing about Grant's approach to case coaching, check out his calendar and schedule a 1:1 session here.
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Transcription: From High School English Teacher to McKinsey
Edward Collinson
Grant, thank you for joining us. Welcome to Strategy Simplified. Could you just give us a brief overview of your professional journey from MBA at Kellogg to McKinsey to coaching at Management Consulted, and now embarking on a pretty awesome new venture of acquiring and running small businesses? Why don't you just give us a high level of view and we can go from there.
Grant Wycliff
Awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. To go through my career briefly, pre-MBA, I was a high school English teacher for four years. So I've taught for two years in Mississippi, two years in Chicago, that will certainly come up as we talk about coaching and all that. But I think towards the end of my teaching tenure, I was ready to pivot. I didn't know what consulting was, didn't know anybody who had gone into it. But after googling a bit, I found out about it and it sounded super exciting, so, you know, sort of saw MBA school as a pathway to getting a gig in consulting, was very fortunate to end up at Kellogg at Northwestern, it happens to be in Evanston, Illinois, where coincidentally, I grew up. So it was cool to be back home and in an MBA school as well. While I was there, I came there to recruit for consulting, was very fortunate to land an internship with McKinsey & Company in their New York office. Did that, had a great summer, came back for full time.
And so then I was an Associate in McKinsey's, New York office for, I guess, two years post MBA. At the end of the two years, you know, started to transition. And I did two things at that point in time. One is I had done tons of case prep with folks while I was at Kellogg, and while I was at McKinsey, and it was something I always enjoyed, and I love being able to coach folks and support folks. And so, soon after I left the firm, I was able to start working with management consulted, which has been awesome. Second thing, I also just pivoted my career, I wanted to start working in tech. And so I spent a couple years after McKinsey at Salesforce, great experience, there was part of their sales organization. And then for about a year after that, I was working at an early stage startup, maybe Series A, sort of in the HR tech ad tech space. But now, as as he just mentioned, and I'm embarking on my entrepreneurial journey, in terms of searching for a small business to acquire. So that's a little bit about me.
Edward Collinson
Wonderful, Grant. That's a pretty awesome story. And I want to talk about this venture. But before we jump into that, I know that you had a pretty diverse experience at McKinsey, particularly in the transformation practice, you know, working with clients across various industries and countries. Could you just share some of the significant milestones and lessons that you've learned from that journey?
Grant Wycliff
Sure. You know, I always light up a little bit when I talk about this stuff, because it was such a special experience. And I feel like I learned so much and grew so much. When I think about milestones, I guess, the first milestone I think about is the first time I felt like I did something right. I was admittedly a bit insecure coming into the firm, I still sort of couldn't believe that I had gotten an offer there. And so the first time I felt like things were really clicking, it was like my second project that I was there for full time, and I ended up just like getting some really positive feedback from this senior partner who was overseeing the transformation we were working on. He said I had done a great job with one client and I was like, Okay, I feel like I can do something. So that'd be like the first milestone, the next milestone is when I started to feel like I had my legs under me.
So there's still you know, this period of time where you're trying to figure out what you're doing and trying to understand how to be effective as a consultant. And I would say I had a case about a year in to my time at the firm, where I really started to feel like I was, not perfect, by any means, but you know, sort of doing the thing at a fundamentally sound level, showing some areas of distinction, you know, knocking out all the work that I had to do, getting it done, and so I guess that would be the second milestone. The third would be like the first time I really felt like a crushed a case. So a year and a half, and I was working with a banking client on a risk transformation, I was working with an incredible team of folks from the New York office, and I got really positive feedback there. And they were saying I've done a great job and talking to me about how I might have potential to start moving towards the EM track.
And so that was a very exciting point in time where I was like, ah, like, I'm really doing it now. But then, I think the last milestone would be the time when I realized, like, what my future path was gonna be. And it was not too long after that third one, you know, you start thinking about transition to EM, and the path to partner and all this stuff. And in between the work and then just some moments of reflection, I sort of discerned that the partner path wasn't the right thing for me. And so I think that was like the last big milestone I had at the firm. Because, for me personally, when I was able to discern that the partner track wasn't for me, that was when I realized, okay, let me start looking for something else and determining what I wanted out of my career next. So I would say those are the big milestones for my time at the firm.
Edward Collinson
Yeah, lovely. And what was the process like when you realized you actually wanted to leave McKinsey? How did that look, in terms of moving forward?
Grant Wycliff
I was hitting the two year mark, I had the opportunity to continue working, and, you know, start trying to find that like pathway to EM. I think for me, I just, had the clarity that it was the right time and I just kind of felt that. So, you know, when you're working at McKinsey, you have a number of people who are around to support you. One of them is your professional development manager. Your PD is the lingo that we would use. And so I just reached out to my PD, and I was like, hey, you know, I think it's time and he was like, Are you sure? And I was like, Yeah, I think it's time. And so, you know, I reached out to him, and they give you time to search for your next thing, which is really nice. But so yeah, at that point, I started to transition to search and started to figure out what role I wanted to take out next.
Edward Collinson
Lovely, that's really lovely to hear. Now, your passion for coaching and education is pretty evident, from your teaching, experience, your work at Kellogg, how have those roles shaped your approach to consulting and now entrepreneurship?
Grant Wycliff
Yeah, for sure. I think a couple things, right. I think the first is I always enjoy and relish coaching, as you just said, and I always try to seek out those opportunities, regardless of where I am, just because it's kind of a part of who I am. I think anytime you take on a job, whether it's in a big company, or in a smaller company, there's going to be a baseline level of stuff that you kind of have to do, and it's part of your job description. And then I think at every opportunity, there's places where you can try to plug in and do your extracurriculars or go above and beyond or, you know, try to like build your reputation. And I think for me, it's just sort of been a natural thing to to try to figure out, you know, where I can lean in and help kind of pull folks up the ladder that I was able to climb up. So when I was at McKinsey, I was doing a ton of recruiting stuff naturally, just like fell in, some of the recruiters at the firm were my best friends there.
And that was just because, nobody made me do that, it was just because that was something I was passionate about. I actually got to have a stint being what's called a staff ambassador. So you are sort of dedicated to doing recruiting as a full time consultant. And so I did that at my alma mater, Kellogg. You know, even when I was at Salesforce, there was a couple younger analysts on our team, and I wasn't their direct manager, but I looked for opportunities to try to coach them and bring them in on some of the work I was doing. And, you know, let them develop their skill set, because it's really important for folks to be able to develop. So I guess that's how it's shaped my approach to different roles I've had. In terms of in terms of my career things, so searching for a business to acquire, I guess it's played out in two ways. I haven't actively sought to have interns as part of my process. There's a lot of search funds that do take on interns.
But you know, I'm still in touch with the people from the Career Center at Kellogg. And so I talked to Liza there who I have a good relationship with. She mentioned there was a student who might be interested in doing search funds. And so I ended up working that out. But I think the second thing in the longer term bigger picture thing is, you know, I'm thinking about where I can basically be held when I acquire a business, I'm not just looking at this as an investor type of thing, I'm looking at it as an opportunity to be an operator. And so I'm trying to find businesses where there's an opportunity to kind of help folks cultivate a career rather than just being a job. Especially if you're looking at like some blue collar businesses where a lot of the frontline employees, might be lower wage workers. I would like to see those folks have the opportunity to be able to stay at the company and grow and get promoted and make a lot more money. And so I'm looking forward to being able to play that role when I'm able to acquire a firm.
Edward Collinson
Now, again, just moving forward in terms of that overall story you've given. As a coach, what's your unique approach or philosophy to case interview prep? Obviously, case interviews can be pretty terrifying. There's 1,000,001 ways to approach it as a coach, as someone who's being coached. How do you how do you see these skills translating into your new role in business acquisition as well?
Grant Wycliff
Sure. So I guess on the first part of the question of things that I bring to the coaching booth, or coaching, I don't know what the correct phrase would be, haha, but, things that are bringing to coaching that might be distinctive—I think first, because of my experience in teaching, and then just in different management capacities, I think I'm strong in terms of being able to meet people where they're at. The analogy I would use is, if you think about the best athletes in the world, like, if it's LeBron James in basketball, or whoever else in football or something, those people are extraordinary at what they do. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be the best coaches in the world, right? And so am I the best caser in the world, like, probably not, but I was good enough to get the job. And I think I have the ability to sort of see what someone brings to the table and try to meet them where they're at, and just help them along in the next step. So that's kind of like the first thing. I think the second thing is just a preference of mine.
And again, it's not right or wrong, just my preference. I remember doing cases with folks, and sometimes their approach is to give a ton of feedback. And, you know, walk through every moment of the case and dive deep into the weeds and tell you about 50 different things that you could have done differently on the margin. My preference is to keep things bigger picture. When I think about being on the other side and having been coached. It's very hard to take feedback about 50 different things and try to implement that all in the next case you do. Because I don't think anybody can remember 50 things like that. So what I try to do is I what I'm doing, and giving folks feedback or coaching them on a case, I try to keep things big picture, I try to focus on two or three things that will like significantly move the needle, and then give them tangible examples about how they can implement those two or three big themes, as opposed to actioning 50 different little things.
And then I think the third thing is, a lot of times when we are casing or when I see folks casing, there is a tendency to focus on correcting errors, which I think is right, because you know, if you're making too many mistakes in the case, that's probably not going to be the best thing for your performance. But what I think is that, people get to a certain level where they're solid, and they're kind of getting through cases and you know, they're knocking them out. And at that point, I like to kind of pivot with somebody that I'm working with, and not just focus on like addressing mistakes, but on getting them to try to accentuate their strengths. And it's not just for like the feel good vibes, although feel good vibes are helpful and important, but I think about it really practically, right? You know, if you think about, like the final round interviews at one of these firms that people want to work at, you know, let's say a final round interviewer, it's a partner at wherever, Bain or something, and they see eight people casing that day.
You know, of those eight people, they made it to final rounds, they've practiced a bunch, probably seven or eight of them are gonna basically get through the case in a solid way. And so at that point, it's like, okay, like, what else are you bringing to the table? It no longer serves you to like, avoid mistakes, it more behoves you to point out areas of distinction and really shine through. So that way, when that person is reflecting on the eight cases, they gave the exact same case eight times. You know, they say, Yeah, most of them got through it. But oh, you know what, I remember Ed, and he did the math faster than anybody I've ever seen. Or, you know, I saw Ed on the brainstorming section of that case and he came up with some ideas that I'd haven't heard anyone bring up in that case before. So being able to showcase those areas of distinction and strength, I think is just as powerful, if not more so, than being able to shore up and eliminate mistakes.
Edward Collinson
Yeah, I love that. And that's a really good point. Especially in the grueling process, where sometimes you get a little bit down with yourself, it might feel like you're running into some really difficult cases, it's I think it's really good to have that point of distinction of actually, you do this really well. So really hone in on this. In terms of the process itself, do you mind just sharing two or three tools or resources that you think are imperatives to success when it comes to consulting interviews?
Grant Wycliff
Sure. I guess when I think about these things, some of the answers I give might be a little bit, I guess, squishy, or maybe come across as unconventional. I think part of why I like to do that is because I like to try to emphasize things that aren't necessarily getting emphasized as often. I mean, Management Consultant does amazing job of giving you the toolkit, more cases that you can ever work with, amazing coaches. I think for me, there's a couple of softer things that are best practices that can be really helpful to people in terms of managing the mental aspect and sort of the, I guess, the emotional aspects of getting through, interview season. And so to that end, Ed I think the first and by far most important thing, I think you have to be able to decouple your sense of happiness, or your sense of accomplishment, or your sense of self worth, from the actual outcomes that you generated in these processes. I remember, for me, I was going through my interviews for internship, and I did the Bain interview.
And you know, the first one I did, it went fairly well. And then the second one I did, I stunk it up. And I was beating myself up and I'm like, Oh, my God, I can't work at bay and my life's over. And then you know, the next day, I do the McKinsey interview, and I pass it and I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm over the moon. And I would argue both of those reactions are not ideal, right? It's, it's not ideal to beat yourself up when you haven't done the best on on your one case, that didn't go well. And it's also not great to get overly excited or, or feel like somehow you've justified your own existence by having thrived in a case, you kind of need to find a sense of contentment, and a sense of self worth that exists outside how these people are rating you in these interviews. And I think that's a hard one and really challenging to implement, but I think it's critical not just for success in casing, but for success in your career.
So I think that's the first one. I think the second one's a little bit squishy as well, but I believe in it sincerely is sort of developing a knack for being an autodidact having a passion for learning. You can call it growth mindset if you want to. But I think you know, for as much as again, there's a million great resources for management consulting, you know, your coaches can give you extraordinary actionable feedback. The number one thing you can do for yourself is believe that you need to work harder and take pride in and value and have a passion for trying to get better at stuff. Because again, if your coach is you know, telling you the exact right technique or showing you exactly what to do in a certain situation, but you don't have the heart to implement it.
You know, you're not going to get the job done. And then I think I guess the third thing I would say, Ed, is you know, going back to the piece I said about strengths based feedback, you know, in terms of your case, preparation, focus on getting to that sort of solid level, you know, and that's going to be implementing very basic best practices, understanding how the case works, getting your math down, you know, getting correct business terminology down. But once you're at that solid level, where you can, more or less get through a case, figure out what your superpower is. And so, you know, don't just accept the feedback that you're getting. Ask your coach, ask people you're casing with, to try and emphasize what they saw you doing that was like, especially distinctive, I guess, to throw in the McKinsey lingo, they would call it a spike or a sparkle. But try to figure out what your spike or your sparkle is right? And then figure out how you can accentuate that even further. I think that's really powerful to your point, Ed, in part because it'll help you weather the ups and downs of the of the experience. But it's also helpful in terms of being able to do something that will really stand out to an interviewer.
Edward Collinson
Wonderful, I agree with all that. But before I move on there, what was your spike and sparkle for your interview?
Grant Wycliff
Oh, gosh, what did they tell me? I guess it probably had to do with top down communication. I'm not as formal as I used to be with the 1-2-3. But I think when I was going through the most common feedback I got was about structured communication about being able to be very clear and to the point and delivering things in a way that's gonna resonate with the interviewer.
Edward Collinson
Now with those skills, do you think that they can easily translate now into kind of running a business and your entrepreneurial ventures?
Grant Wycliff
Yeah, that's a great question. I think some of them definitely carry over. So the first thing I said, is decoupling your sense of worth from the outcomes of the process. I've only been searching for two or three months now. A lot of people can take two years, maybe more to find a business that they end up acquiring. And so there's a ton of ups and downs associated with that. And the reality is that for a lot of people, search can be a very lonely process. You don't necessarily have a team you're working with, like when you're at a consulting firm. And so you kind of have to believe in the process, and not get discouraged when a deal blows up, or when you've been searching and you can't find something. So I think that's key there. I think the passion for learning, growth mindset, being an autodidact. I guess another buzzword to use for that is self starter. But in entrepreneurship, you certainly have to be a self starter. I don't work for anyone but myself now, that and so nobody's gonna make me do anything, everything I do in a given day is because I chose to do it. And so I definitely have to have that passion for trying to accomplish more stuff.
And then I think in terms of the leaning in and figuring out a superpower? That's a good question. I mean, I'm not sure how much it applies to entrepreneurship yet, I don't think I've been doing it long enough to say, I do suspect that when I acquire a business and start running it, there's going to be certain things where I really tend to benefit the company from focusing more of my time on them, versus other things where I would benefit from probably delegating to someone else. Because, you know, for some of the businesses I'm looking at, if they're construction or like service businesses, for instance, I don't think anybody's going to benefit for me trying to figure out how to stripe a parking lot as well as some of the guys on the team, right? Some of them are just going to be far better than me at that I'm never going to catch them. But like, you know, am I going to be the right person to figure out how we can optimize our marketing and sales engine? You know, can I figure out how we can develop more solid relationships and make our revenue predictable, that's probably a place where I would have more of a relative superpower compared to some of the folks in the business that that are working there. And so that's probably a place where that makes sense to.
Edward Collinson
Now, as someone who's been on both sides of the consulting table, and now you're venturing into entrepreneurship, what advice do you have for anyone aspiring to carve a career in consulting, but still considering a transition like yours? Any specific resources or starting points that you'd suggest?
Grant Wycliff
Sure, let's see here. So I'll start off squishy, but then tell me if its helpful to get more tangible with folks. I think in terms of carving a career in consulting, I think about all the times I asked a partner this or asked someone who was more senior than me this and then also about my own experience, I think the biggest thing that is important to being successful in a career in consulting—there's going to be the table stakes stuff of being good at the job, you know. And that almost goes without saying, but I think, figuring out how to make the work sustainable for you. And so to that end, like earlier in your career, being able to get comfortable drawing boundaries between work and your life, or not. You have the option to not draw those boundaries and make work your entire life. That doesn't sound fun to me, and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. I think some people make that choice. But I think you have to figure out a way to make the path to partner compatible with your life.
And that's something that everybody who ends up being successful has to do and there isn't exactly a playbook for it. So that's probably one. The other that is really top of mind is prioritizing, finding the people you'd love to work with. I think consulting firms, you know, I haven't worked at all of them, I can only speak to my experience working at McKinsey. But working with people that you love to be around, you know, it's an apprenticeship business. And the reality is that you are going to benefit by trying to grow your career, from getting counsel, getting feedback, getting support, mentorship, and sponsorship from people who have walked that path before you, right. And so it's far easier to get that support and that mentorship and that sponsorship, when you really get along with the person and you see something in them, and they see something in you. So I think those two things are are of paramount importance. But let me know if it's helpful to like, give more tactical, like specific resources.
Edward Collinson
I think especially on that, maybe just elaborating a little bit more into if you're choosing to draw those boundaries, how can you do that in a way that's still respectful and respectful to yourself, but also to the company and not saying, I don't want to work Fridays days at 8 pm, I want to do something else, right.
Grant Wycliff
Sure. Sure. There's certainly an art to it. I think some people are better practitioners of that art than I was. I think the the fortunate thing is that, again, I can't speak for every consulting firm, but just thinking about my time at McKinsey, there are mechanisms that are built in to facilitate this. So, what we would do as a best practice, like the first week of a new case, you get together with the entire team, and you have what's called a team learning. And so that's a time when everybody shares with people about, like, who they are, where they're from the will kind of work, they do this type of stuff. But then you also talk about things, you know, on this case, I'm trying to have X experience in terms of, I really want to, you know, get more exposure to doing something analytical, are I really want to get more exposure to clients, for instance, would be common things that associates would be looking for in a case. But then, what's the other part here?
The other part is like talking about your boundaries, right? Or working preferences, I think is the term we used to use. And so at that point it's like, yeah, obviously, there's going to be an expectation that you're performing at a high level, but if you can help people understand, oh, I have a brand new daughter, she's three months old, if it's possible for me to, you know, work from home half the week or come back early from travel or whatever the reasonable solution that you think is, I think getting the team ahead of that and helping them understand what you need and what your expectations are, is really helpful. I guess it just comes down to being proactive, right? Because, you know, if you're a month into the case, and then you start getting upset because they're keeping you from doing something that you wanted, but then you never told anybody that that was a priority to you, or that you have that preference, how are they supposed to know, nobody can read minds, right? And so yeah, I think it's about communicating our expectations proactively in a way that's reasonable in a way that you know, people will be able to understand.
Edward Collinson
That's good advice, and I think I'll definitely try my best to implement that as well. So, Grant, you've got a pretty awesome story, you've done 1,000,001 different thing. Yeah, looking back, is there anything that you would have done differently? In terms of your journey all the way from business school to consulting to coaching entrepreneurship? Is there anything you'd have done differently?
Grant Wycliff
It's such a hard question. I guess for me, you've probably heard me emphasizing different things that relate back to this theme, right. But I think I think it took me too long to realize the importance of prioritizing yourself and your things that you need as a human, in addition to prioritizing being good at the job, I think, just like my attitude coming into consulting was that I thought I was a hiring mistake, I was so incredibly insecure about being around all these brilliant and accomplished people. And so I think I had this survival mode attitude of, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to prove myself to these people. I think once you end up working at one of these places, you know, you're not a hiring mistake, you have to kind of come to accept that.
And so to the extent that you can be proactive about getting some of these personal things in balance, it goes back to the perhaps hackneyed, but really true phrase that you can't pour from an empty cup, and so, I think if you're not prioritizing yourself and your wellness, it's gonna be really hard to thrive at a sustainable level for a long term period of time, when it comes to the actual work. And so I think that's the main thing I wish I had done differently, is understanding the importance of that stuff, prioritize that, get ahead of it, and figure out how to accommodate my work self and sort of my my personal self.
Edward Collinson
Lovely, yeah, I think that's so true. It's important to refill the cup sometimes, if you want to keep pouring, I agree with you on that. In terms as your perspective as a coach, former consultant, entrepreneur as well, what's one common misconception that candidates have about the whole recruiting process? I'm interested.
Grant Wycliff
Yeah, I think there's a few common ones that I tend to remember coming up frequently, and so maybe somebody would push back or disagree with some of these I personally feel pretty comfortable about them. I think the first misconception I hear is something about that there's this sentiment, or there's this thought process among people that there's a way to game the application system. So just to give a stylized take on it, it's something like, oh, like, I really want to work at, you know, BCG or something. I hear that it's way less competitive if you apply to their Cleveland office than it is if you apply to their San Francisco office, right. And so I'm just gonna apply to the Cleveland office to maximize my chances of getting in. You know, here's my thought process on why I think this is a common misconception, I think, are there different probabilities associated with getting placed in different offices at these firms? I mean, maybe, but to assert that you somehow have better odds of getting in by the Cleveland office than the San Francisco office, here's what you're really asserting, you're asserting that you have an idea of the number of people who are applying to each of those offices, you have an idea that you have an idea of the number of slots they have open or the number of consultants they're going to hire in each of those offices. And you're saying that one fraction is bigger than the other.
I don't think you know that. I don't think anybody knows that. So the notion that somehow you think you know each of those two fractions, and that you can sort of game it that way, I think it's a little bit silly. I think it's a bit misguided, I think it makes far more sense just to apply to the place where you want to work and live. And just kind of leave it at that. And I think you also have to believe that you are going to be good enough in the interview process to to get the spot and the place you want to live and work. You have to believe that anyway. So I think that's one of my first misconceptions I think of. I guess the other one, it kind of goes back to some of the point I made about focusing on some of the big picture themes in casing rather than in the minutia. Sometimes, you know, when I was going through casing, people would give me this really pointed feedback about really specific stuff that's super on the margin, right? So oh, when you're doing you know, what you're doing, you're upfront structure, you can only take this many number of seconds. And if you take more than that, it's not good.
I don't think any of these partners are timing exactly how long you're taking to do your upfront structure. And I think, is it better to do it faster than not, sure, but what I would say is, anytime I hear super pointed feedback that is on the margin like that, I tend to be very skeptical of it. At the end of the day, again, just speaking about McKinsey, but I think it's true of the other firms, you know, they're hiring for competencies. So at McKinsey, they're they're looking for people who have strong problem solving acumen, they're looking for people who have the ability to collaborate well on teams, to be entrepreneurial, you know, to support clients. And so there's a big disconnect between that on the margin sort of minutia based feedback, and then those bigger themes that they're actually assessing you on. And so it's not that any of those little things are wrong, but I'm generally skeptical of them. And I think it's far more important to focus on the big picture than it is to think about like optimizing little things on the margin. So that's what I would said.
Edward Collinson
Now, one last question for you here. We've obviously kind of talked about your new venture, do you want to just dive into it a little bit more, and also just kind of walk us through? What it is that you're really excited about with it and what maybe you're a little bit nervous about?
Grant Wycliff
Sure, yeah. So I guess to start from the beginning, for people who aren't familiar with this path, obviously, at the highest level, there is the idea of doing something that is entrepreneurial. I think this idea of doing what some people would call a search fund, other people would call entrepreneurship through acquisition. To my understanding our recollection, there was a model of this that was kind of started in the 80s at, I forget if it's Stanford or Harvard, but they had this idea basically, that people who are coming out of MBA school have this strong general management skill set, they're kind of smart, but kind of hard working, they sort of get business at a general level. And that there's a bunch of small businesses out there, call it something that does anywhere as low as, I don't know, a million dollars in EBITDA per year, a million dollars in profit per year, maybe upwards to like 5 million or something. I'm sort of being loose, but for the sake of argument, let's say say that's the range, right?
The idea is that there's businesses out there of that size, that have done a really good job and have become successful and have served customers well, and have employed folks, and they've been started and grown by people who are really excellent operators, and people who have really masterful knowledge of like that specific domain. But maybe there's an opportunity to buy one of these businesses and then kind of take it to the next level. The idea being that somebody with that MBA skillset might differ from somebody with that traditional operator skillset, in terms of being able to implement some processes, being able to try to scale up the organization, at ADM, people use this "throwing up the fax machines", right. So modernizing some things where there might be antiquated processes in place. So it's become very popular since then, I think, especially in the past 5 to 10 years, search funds, entrepreneurship through acquisition, has kind of exploded. I heard about it when I was in business school at Kellogg, and it sounded super cool to me. And I think for certain people, it kind of gives you a lightbulb moment and you're like, oh my gosh, like, I didn't even know I could do that.
Um, but it wasn't the right time. For me personally, I wanted to do consulting, I was really excited about working at the firm. And so I kept it in the back of my head. And then fast forward to now, I kind of decided this is the right time for me. And so yeah, I think that's what I've been focused on. Basically, I'm looking for a small business to acquire and then operate. And in terms of things that I'm excited about. I love working for myself, and structuring my day as I see fit. I feel like I'm working just as hard as I ever have in any other place but it's all self generated and it all feels like it's in service of things that I believe in and things that I feel like I'm going to be able to benefit from enjoying the upside of one day. And then things that make me nervous.
Practically speaking, it can be a risky endeavor, I think, especially if you are taking the path that I'm doing in terms of trying to fund as much of it as you can yourself. You know, obviously, I'm exhausting some of my savings by focusing on this venture, I'm going to take out a massive loan from the SBA that has a personal guarantee attached to it. So it's certainly not without its risk, and that can bring a little bit of discomfort. But I think at the end of the day, I have the determination that I'm doing the thing that's right for me, both in terms of my career, and in terms of what's right for me and my family. And so that makes me feel really excited and confident above any of the any of the risks or any of the fear that could come with it.
Edward Collinson
Very well. Grant, as is tradition on Management Consulted's podcast, we like to ask a few personal and fun questions. So I have lots of questions for you and I'd love to hear your responses to them. So we talked a lot about superpowers earlier. If you could have any superpower to help you and your new venture, what would it be and why?
Grant Wycliff
Oh, man. Oof, I guess if anything, I'm wanting to cheat and pick two, but I'll just pick one. I wish I had a very strong aptitude to learn more trades based or manual skills quickly. I really admire—I have an older brother, and he just like has always been a Maven, when it comes to this stuff. Like he can just figure out how to build stuff. He can figure out how to do things with his hands. I can be a fast learner and a quick study at some things. But you know, arts and crafts, I probably failed it in kindergarten woodshop, it was never my thing.
And so I really wish I was able to develop those skills quickly. Not necessarily that, again, I would be out striping parking lots 10 hours a day. But I think it would help me understand how best to set up my future employees for success. And enable them to grow as quickly as they can and develop in their careers as quickly as they can. And frankly, also just to ensure that my customers are getting the quality and level of service associated with with what we're providing to them that they deserve.
Edward Collinson
Now, what's your favorite pastime? When you're done with a busy day or in between, what do you like to do?
Grant Wycliff
I guess a couple things. You know, you have the additional data section on your resume and some people put fun stuff there. I think what I put is that I'm an amateur coffee expert. So I can't live without it, I drink it every day, but I really enjoy it. And so I love trying out like new roasteries. You know, new coffees. I'll give a plug that they didn't ask for but Portrait Coffee in Atlanta is my favorite roaster right now. They're the first black-owned roaster in Atlanta, so they're fantastic. I love NBA basketball. So I've been watching a ton of the playoffs. I grew up watching the Chicago Bulls. I grew up watching Michael Jordan. It's been heartbreak since then, but my childhood was fun for that. And then, you know, I'm a big traveler. My wife and I are trying to sort out our plans to go to Spain sometime soon. So when I have time, I love to be able to get out and see the world.
Edward Collinson
I love it. Thank you for sharing that. All right, well, last one before I let you get on with your day here. Do you have any memorable or funny stories from consulting, coaching, everything else?
Grant Wycliff
Oh, man. So probably what was my favorite project that McKinsey, we were serving a large retail company. And we were doing basically this, I guess what you would call a sales transformation. So we were training every Associate in the company on some sales best practices. You know, it's the type of store where you walk in, and it's somebody's job to kind of show you around and sell your stuff. And my absolute favorite was, because I had taught in Mississippi in the past, they basically carved up all these retail stores for us to oversee. And so I had about 100 stores in Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, maybe one other southern state, I can't remember. But I just have so many fond memories of that project.
Being able to work with the store associates was amazing. And being able to help train the managers is amazing. But you know, for people who love traveling, if you've never been to New Orleans, you have to go to New Orleans. It's an incredible city. I remember one morning, we were getting to a training and I had been with them the day before, so I had gotten to know folks and I guess I showed up looking a little bit tired. I haven't had my favorite coffee or whatever. And so this one gentleman who worked at one of the retail stores he saw me looking out of it. And he was like, hey, Grant did New Orleans get you. So he was just teasing me because, obviously, New Orleans, they know how to party. I hadn't been out partying, I just had not enough coffee. But I really remember that project fondly. And working with those folks. That is a very special memory for me.
Edward Collinson
That's really lovely. My roommate actually just got back from New Orleans on a conference and I forget the name of the street.
Grant Wycliff
Bourbon Street.
Edward Collinson
Yeah, yeah. Bourbon Street. He said it t was just like a party. 24/7 It's incredible.
Grant Wycliff
It's a special place. Something they tell people in New Orleans is it's the organic version of Las Vegas, you know, all the same trouble to get into just more of the people, less corporate type of thing.
Edward Collinson
Wonderful. Well, Grant, that's all the questions I've got for you and it's been really lovely to hear your story. So thank you so much for coming on. Really quickly, do you want to just let everyone know if they want to get in contact? Or if they want to talk to you, what's the best way to do that?
Grant Wycliff
Sure. Well, so first off, thank you for having me, it's been a pleasure. In terms of reaching out to me, if you want to work together on some case stuff or some interview stuff, happy to do that. Obviously, I'm on the website. If you want to just reach out and chat with me in general, probably the easiest places is to find me on LinkedIn. I'm fairly active on there. Not in terms of posting and stuff, but in terms of accepting connections, or whatever. So there's anything I can do to be helpful for folks, I'm happy to hear from them. Feel free to reach out to me.